There have been a lot of excellent episodes of Lost during this final season. Last night’s wasn’t one of them. The stilted speeches that the show deemed necessary to convey the gravity of the episode’s situations could not be rescued by the actors. The special effects looked quaintly cheesy. I just wasn’t buying it.
Don’t worry. Jeff Jensen is breaking down the episode with a complete analysis in all his infinite wisdom. I am popping in here with one of my non-mythology brief reviews.
Last night’s episode, “Across the Sea,” with Jacob and the Man in Black as lovin’-and-fightin’ brothers, reminded me of a Sunday-school play about Bad and Good, with Honor Thy (Step-)Mother as a bonus lesson.
Lost has a lot of explaining to do in its final hours. But last night, the info was unloaded in a form that was less an origin story of Jacob and MIB than a dark-and-light fantasy fable. The dialogue was so stiff, I expected to see that the actors’ tongues had turned into slivers of balsa wood.
Frankly, I’ve long had a bit of a problem with Mark Pellegrino’s performance as Jacob. Whether because of the way he’s been directed or by his natural inclination, Pellegrino has rendered Jacob as more of a pious simp than a sturdy conveyor of Lost wisdom.
But last night, even the usually terrific Titus Welliver and guest star Allison Janney could not sell the long speeches they had to deliver about secrecy, trust, hidden glowing sources of power, and fully revealed displays of evil. (I half-expected Martin Sheen’s President Bartlet to come staggering out of a cave to yell, “We’ll fight the good fight, C.J. — just comb your hair and get me back to D.C.!”)
The hour was written by Lost main men Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof — it’s not as though the producers decided to hand off an episode to a talented amateur to see what he or she could do — so you know the drama we got was exactly what the series intended. It’s just that, at this point in its proceedings, Lost must do more than talk about its themes (and boy, was this hour talky). It has to dramatize those themes in vivid, concise ways. This was the hour’s failure.
The hour ended with the perfect music: the Doors’ “The End,” one of the most portentous, bloated famous rock songs ever. It suited the episode, I’m sorry to say.
But maybe this was just an off week; certainly Lost has more than earned the trust that this was a momentary false step on the path to a glorious conclusion.
Agree? Disagree?
Follow: @kentucker
Disagree.
Agree, it would have been better earlier in the season, not 3rd from last. It sucked the momentum out of the season.
Agree. I missed the usuals 6.
After “The Candidate”, with the emotional deaths at the end, this episode just wasn’t up to what one would expect. Flip this episode and “Ab Aeterno” (obviously adjusting for continuity issues) and the season would’ve been much better: you get a bit of sympathy for the devil and understand the rules (and stakes) of the game earlier in the season while seeing the emotional toll it has taken towards the end of the season as the story gets ready to conclude. As it is, this episode was a pre-climactic denouement that sucked momentum out of the story rather than building on the sense of “accelerating towards finality” the last few episodes had created.
Agree. It took all of the momentum we had been feeling away. The episode itself was fine but it seemed out of place. I just want to get back to the main players; enough with this mythology bulls–t.
Agree
Allison Janney sucked! She was so flat! They should have gotten some unknown actress to play that part…it would have been better. She ruined the whole episode.
Agree. I really disliked it. It was like a bad SyFy made-for-tv movie.
Excellent point Q – I’ve posted already that last night’s episode should have been much earlier in the season as it would have helped things make a little more sense, but wouldn’t have given anything away. I didn’t think of your suggestion of flipping the two episodes – Ab Aeterno (with only some very minor adjustments) would have been much more powerful last night, especially with the context this episode gave to it.
DISAGREE!!! Whoever thought the island was inhabited by Gods were wrong. They were normal people given extraordinary powers. I love the story purpose and good vs evil. Sure the writting could have been a touch better but I see the end in sight and I like how its wrapping up to be.
ITA w/ switching Ab Aeterno with this one in sequence. But last 2 weeks’ submarine-related episodes would have lost their punch if we already understood the moral relativism of jacob v mib.
but this was written like an episode-long version of the whispers reveal (w/ hurley & michael). allison janey, jacob, mib, and the real mother might as well have been facing the camera and talking directly to us with all those stilted revelations.
Agree – this was the first episode of lost in the entire six-year run where I was entirely bored and wanted the episode to end. Had the story been mixed in with the regular cast it might have worked. I was more focused on trying to figure out if that was actually Allison Janney or not.
I totally agree, this similar to the comment I was going to leave.
Here is why last nights episode sucked
they answered only 2 and a hald questions about lost
1. How did Jacob and MIB come to be
2. How did the smaoke moster come to be
(1/2). How is the island special
1.They still didnt explain how Jacob can leave the Island
2.How he can bring people to the Island
3.Y he doesnt age
4.Who built the statue
5.How he turned Richard into an ageless person
6.How Jacobs fake mom knew so much about the light in the cave
The episode which was touted to be one the best episodes about lost just sucked. Unlike Ab Aeterno, it didnt give us any answers
and about the Island, wow, all it is light in a cave.
They should not have wasted time in the 3rd season with the useless 2nd Dharma Island,
they are trying to rush through answers in the last season and wasting time with useless stories
I belive they wasted alot of time and waste too much time with the emotional scenes
It sucked because it lacked answers and substance
Disagree.
It’s about the characters stupid.
So many people complain it didn’t answer enough questions and raised new ones. Well you’re never going to get all the answers.
What we got was mainly about the character background. Why Jacob and MIB are who they are and do what they do.
The other purpose was to provide background for the present day characters and the decisions they make in the last episodes – how those decisions fit into the Islands history.
Also.
The producers say the number and nature of the mysteries they intend to address during the show’s final 16 episodes will be guided by this principle: Does the question matter to the characters? ”We don’t want the show to be pedantic,” says Cuse. ”If the characters are not concerned with a question, how can we be concerned with it? So there are many, many questions that people probably have that we just can’t address.”
agree, wholeheartedly. the information imparted was useful in terms of the mythology and i have no quibble with that. my problem was with the dialogue (flat), the acting from otherwise fine actors (flat, at times seeming as if they wished they weren’t there), and the direction (the episode seemed as if it was crawling through quicksand). i’m a huge mythology geek and was thankful for that part of it, and i’ve stood by the writers time and again for the ways they chose to portray their concept, but just as dead is dead, bad is bad, and this episode was not up to their usual level.
the idea of putting this episode before Ab Aeterno is perfect. I puts history of the island in better perspective, and then we get last week’s sub episode and the final 2 episodes for a huge finale! Make this show order an option on the DVD, powers that be!
Ken pass this idea to Darlton as a request please!
The main problem with this episode is that it was completely linear, with no flashbacks, flashforwards, or flashsideways, which is why it doesn’t seem like LOST. I can’t think of another episode of Lost that did not use this convention of storytelling-perhaps if they would have gone between the origin story and the island present (maybe paralleling Widmore and Ben’s Feud) it would have played much better.
This episode needed two additional scenes in the current time stream to make it work: a scene with unlocke talking to his real mother and a scene with the young ghost boy talking with his step-mother. These would have connected the past story to the present one and made it feel much more like Ab Aeterno in weight and value. They would also have removed any possible ambiguity as to what unlocke is and where this story is going.
Wow I thought it was one of the best episodes
Same. I really sucked in most of the time. Allison Janney was great. On a bad note I can only say it felt like it was a outline of old questions that needed answered.
So… Disagree!
Actually I really liked this episode, we saw a different side of Jacob and I liked that, Mark Pellegrino was great. We got a couple of answers, also more questions but I honestly don’t think it was a bad episode.
I was starting to think I was all alone! I liked it – I certainly wasn’t bored, and I thought Allison Janney was great (as she tends to be). I even liked having it after The Candidate – it was kind of disorienting (in a good way) and something completely different after an emotional hour. Mostly, it made me really excited to rewatch this season when everything is over, to see everything in the context of the end (not that I am in any way looking forward to the end itself).
I personally feel this wasn’t a bad episode, in and of itself. What made it a bad episode was it’s timing – this late in the season, and after last week’s monumental events, it totally failed to keep up the momentum that had been building up all season. Put it as one of the first two or three episodes of the season, and everyone would have a much more positive impression of it.
I really loved this episode! I’ve been listening to the Darlton podcasts; and since they have explained that the penultimate episode is more of a “part-one to the finale” I thought this mythology based episode was not only well placed but really intriguing.
I’m sad to read that it has been a disappointment for others because I think it’s one of the best of the season.
i enjoyed the ep, but i agree it could have used work
I thought it was great as well! I think people were thrown off because it was so different than the majority of the previous episodes. I also think people may be frusrated that we didn’t get more direct answers. I, on the other hand, thought it was well done and I stll have complete faith in the lost writers. I still believe that they will wrap up this amazing show and season in a mind-blowing and satisfying way.
Yeah, I think this writer is way off. I thought the performances were incredible, and the dialogue rarely felt stilted to me. Honestly, I felt like I came to understand those two characters better in that one episode than I ever did with Kate over 6 seasons. And to all those people saying not enough questions were answered: Oh my word, it doesn’t matter who built the statue or where the mother came from!!! Lost will always have its mysteries. That’s what makes it great. If you can’t enjoy that aspect, then you are watching the wrong show!
Also loved the episode. Everyone who’s talking about how this show’s about the characters (and not silly questions that would ultimately have unsatisfying answers) is right. This episode showed once more how this is NOT about good and evil, but about humans struggling to make meaning and find direction.
The only moment that didn’t work for me was, at the end, when they cut between the burial of MIB and his crazy step-mom to the ‘Adam and Eve’ scene – that WAS pedantic, and totally out of keeping with the rest of the show’s storytelling.
God I’m glad to finally see a group of people that agrees with me!
I LOVED that episode and also loved its placement in the season. I think switching it up with Ab Aeterno would not have made sense. In The Candidate we discovered that MIB was indeed trying to kill all of the candidates (was anyone surprised?). But there was always that doubt. In Across The Sea we find out MIB’s true motivation and his entire mindset. The Candidate would have been much less interesting and engaging if we had known that before.
The episode had a mythological feel to it – including the dialog. So I guess maybe that’s why to some it seemed stiff.
A lot of people didn’t like this episode and I can understand that. But a lot of people don’t like Star Wars either. Hell, a lot of people like Prison Break. Guess it’s different strokes.
“The only moment that didn’t work for me was, at the end, when they cut between the burial of MIB and his crazy step-mom to the ‘Adam and Eve’ scene – that WAS pedantic, and totally out of keeping with the rest of the show’s storytelling.”
I guess there are going to be a million ways to look at Lost. A lot of people have complained that the answers that the show gives to some of the mysteries were too indirect, and that you weren’t really sure that you got the answer even after they gave it. The cut between scene made it ABUNDANTLY clear who Adam and Eve are, though. Pedantic? Some see it that way. I see it as a firm confirmation.
I agree. This episode sucked. I’m sorry I was included in the story. I knew the material was weak but they paid me a lot of money. I will make up for it in the final episode “The End”. I’m killing every one, and its exciting to see. Since, “Across the Sea” didn’t answer the most important question everyone wants to know, “what is the smoke monster”, I will let everyone knew now. SPOILER AHEAD!!!! YOU ARE WARNED.
The smoke monster is a monster made of smoke. BANG!
Thanks for the knowledge. What is your name?
Hey, thanks for asking. I will give that away too.
SPOILERS AHEAD!!!! YOU HAVE BEEN WANRED!!! SPOILER!!!!
My name is Jake, just Jake.
I thought this episode did a pretty good job of explaining the smoke monster. Because Jacob could’t actually kill his brother the magic light hole spit out the MIB’s body and his soul filled with anger and rage burst out in a cloud of black smoke. Works for me.
We already know how Lost ends.
Smokey gets off the island, turns into Russell Hantz, and appears on every season of Survivor for the rest of eternity. Yes, I’m talking about hell on Earth!
funny paul!!! except that smokey russell is the best thing to happen to survivor in several years! So your hell is another man’s heaven in a TV set.
I disagree heartily with Ken on this one.
I agree with Ken… I don’t know, it just COULD have been so much better. We were witnessing the birth of Smokey, and we got a lot of talky instead.
Overall, I think they were trying really hard to replicate Ab Aeterno and failed badly.
You must like Syfy movies.
This episode was a disaster.
Agree
Not a lot happened, ultimately… and it seemed a little like a church-produced filmed version of some bible story (where there ‘s not much character to work with, only narrative)… and CJ (doing her damndest but pretty distracting and a bit too 2003 to fit the period, and possible not convinced herself) and Jacob really seemed like “today, the part of ____ will be played by” actors. Yep, that’s what it was — my sunday school doing a version of the Christmas story, complete with a discussion needed afterwards to go over what everybody learned.
Agree, the episode had good idea’s but it failed to pull it off. I felt embarrassed watching it. They should have saved the special effects budget just for these last few episodes. I think the dialogue was so cheesy because they had to fit Jacob and Mib’s backstory into one episode, instead they should have slowly unravelled it throughout season 6. Rather that than the whole temple business. But I’ll be there for the finale, and still expecting something great.
Jack2211: how can you compare this to a church production? The characters were deeply flawed. I saw no good vs. evil whatsoever. Both characters were good and evil. To anyone thinking Jacob was some pure god-like character, this episode was a punch to the face. To anyone thinking MIB was evil incarnate with no redeeming qualities or reasonable motives, another punch to the face.
Mostly disagree.
First, this was the episode to take a breather after last week’s emotional tornado.
Second, Across the sea firmly astablished the correct framework for viewing the entire 6 long years of program — that of an ancient mythology where gods use humans are pawns in their own private drama.
I also missed seeing our regular heros, but I can forgive their absence for one week while the mythlogical backstory is told.
WORST. EPISODE. EVER. “What Kate Does” and Jack’s tatto ep were positively Emmy-worthy in comparison. I thought this episode was bloated, self-indulgent and boring, not to mention completely lacking in answers. I’d rather have spent an hour with the Hansos back at the university — THAT would have been interesting.
Yep. From the beginning there have been Dharma logos all over the place in this show. I would love to know more about their beginnings than Jacob and MIB’s. Frankly, I wish I had never heard of them in the first place. They should have stuck with the battle between Widmore and Ben and went a little deeper into the Dharma past. Not try to come up with this crazy sh*t they are flinging our way now.
6 YEARS IVE BEEN WAITING TO FIND OUT THE MYSTERY OF THE ISLAND AND ITS A FREAKING LAMP IN A CAVE???? FAIL
That’s funny, very funny!!!
Yep, that’s what I thought. There’s a Heaven & Hell party in a glowing beaver dam. EPIC FAIL!
I have to agree that I wasn’t crazy about the light reveal. It reminded me of Pandora’s Box.
I also have one question that I assume would matter to the characters, but I bet we won’t get an answer: How did Smokey get trapped in the Cabin, and how did he get out?
Typical of yet another withholding mother to show her kids a Glowry-Hole and then not tell them what it’s really for.
AGREE!
WORST
LOST EPISODE
EVER
They have two chances left to redeem themselves. I have a lot of goodwill towards the producers, but this season has totally sucked.
Is anybody else here totally picturing these “worst. episode. ever” posters as the comic book guy from The Simpsons?
Disagree. I loved this episode. I can see how some people might not like it, but it was a really emotional episode for me.
Judging from the last issue of EW, people who don’t want Lost to get spiritual are in for a disappointing end of the season.
I loved it too. It seems like I’m reading so many negative things about it, but I thought it was fantastic and really moving.
I think I’m going to enjoy the finale *even more* now that I know that so many people don’t want Lost to get spiritual. He he he.
Agree 1000%!
This episode was like a bad Greek Tragedy done by an amature theater group.
…”The hour ended with the perfect music: the Doors’ “The End,” one of the most portentous, bloated famous rock songs ever. It suited the episode, I’m sorry to say….”
Wow…The fact that you compared one of the most sultry and dark renderings of the psychedelic culture as a whole as portentous, you just don’t get it, Tucker. Everything doesnt need to be pigeon-holed, categorized, and examined for merit…Art is to be enjoyed…interpretation is a by-product of the experience. We must not see the world with the same eyes…I don’t know what else to say.
I disliked this episode in general. The answers given were way too vague and anti-climactic to make six years worth it. (light in a whole that’s within everyone? What does that even mean?)
That being said, that’s the same thing people were saying about the Sun-Jin reunion (anticlimactic and badly acted), only to be slapped in the face and blown away by the next episode.
Maybe I should hold my comments until next week, then, to see what crzy stuff they throw our way. I’ll probably be proven wrong… just like we always are.
I have been reading these comments over these past few days hoping to hear someone tell me just what did happen in this episode. What is the yellow glow? Is it supposed to represent heaven, or Hell? Is the black smoke supposed to represent Hell? No one seems to come out and say what they think it is. Is Jacob guarding the entrance to heaven and that is the important task he has for “as long as he can” or is he guarding the gates of Hell? Dear old mom was very sinster and creepy.
The light in the cave is the Spark of Life. Having Alison Janney (best known as CJ Cregg, a White House Press Secretary–a White House Press Secretary, of all people, guarding Life Itself–love the irony Lost producers) guard the light was inspired casting. How did her character come to be? She was also shipwrecked at one time, possibly along with Jacob and Smokey’s mother, but she was the one who got chosen by whoever got her/them shipwrecked to guard the cave.
The cave, in 2004 to the present day, is situated under the Temple. This is how dunking into the Temple’s waters resurrected Sayid and anyone else who was close to death. Jacob gets to leave the island because he is trying to protect the Light, and “the Island knows” he always plans to return. Ben knows how to leave, undoubtedly by watching how Jacob did it.
Yes, I know that Ben says that he “never met Jacob”, but Ben is a habitual liar, isn’t he? Didn’t he meet him at least once when he killed him, for example? Ben, for all that he is, did always want to always return to the island. Didn’t he really yearn to replace Jacob himself?
As for Smokey, MIB, etc, since I am Jewish, I am going to call him Esau. Some would say that in the Torah, Esau was betrayed by his mother Rebecca, who preferred his twin brother Jacob to Esau. She conspired with Jacob to “steal” Esau’s birthright by having Jacob pose as Esau to the nearly blind and nearly dead Isaac who wanted to bless his first born and pass his estate over to him. Rebecca correctly felt that Jacob predestined to be Isaac’s sucessor as he was always closer to G-d by studying and praying, while Esau apparently only really loved to hunt. In the Torah, as on the Island, Jacob is much less hairy and fair-skinned and even possibly blonde while Esau is a wooly darker-haired physical type. Jacob and Esau’s father Isaac, while also a man of G-d, nevertheless, was said to value earthly pleasures more than either his father Abraham, or his son, Jacob.
As for the Smoke, it is the bad side of Life, the part of the soul that knows anger and rage and craves what it does not need, or should want. It is anger, evil, all of the vices that Man is supposed to avoid. These things can kill him, after all. They may entice him, give him seconds of pleasure, and promise him the moon and the stars, but when push comes to shove, it will surely kill him.
LOST is borrowing from religion, mythology, popular fiction, rock and roll, and all other kinds of traditional and pop culture to create its own unique mix.
I used to think that Jack and Esau (in the body of Locke) would be the last ones left, with Jack being Jacob, and Esau always remaining Esau. But now I am thinking that since Kate could never quite choose between Jack and Sawyer this truly means something because there has got to be a woman involved in the final selection, someway, somehow.
In the end, it will Jack as Jacob and Sawyer as Esau, left on the beach, always debating about the pluses and minuses of man until the next ship/boat/plane/flying saucer comes by. I’m still not quite sure if Sawyer will be Sawyer or if Esau will have inhabited Sawyer’s body after killing him, but if I am writing this, I would have Sawyer being himself, always reminding the good doctor about the evils of man, and just how many times he could have left the island if only Jack wouldn’t have found a way to spoil his plans–and “kill” poor Juliet.
Disagree.
Me too, I disagree. Ken Tucker, maybe you’ve eaten too many KFC double-downs and watched too much Glee and American Idol. It’s made you thick, imho.
You say : “It has to dramatize those themes in vivid, concise ways.” You couldn’t be farther from the truth. Shame on you for disagreeing with Damon & Carlton’s decision to assume its fanbase is intelligent enough to decipher all that was thrown at us in this episode. Again, this show has never been about vivid exposition. It will never spoon feed you answers. You have to learn to think, on your own.
This episode made us think, it gave us room for interpretation. And it has a lot of references to previous episodes. You should watch it again and follow the dialogue closely. Then check out all that you’ve missed by visting Lostpedia. You’d be amazed at how ignorant your article comes across as.
You miss the point of his review. Ken was judging the writing, not the mythology. And the writing lacked momentum and was full of clunky speechifying. It made me think too — it just didn’t come together as great TV.
Sorry hugo-panzer but Damon and Carlton -didn’t- decide that we are intelligent enough to decipher what was thrown at us. Case in point: the footage of Locke, Kate and Jack talking about the skeletons. If you needed those scenes thrown in there then you aren’t paying attention. It was unnecessary. Also, we as fans are intelligent enough to have the story told to us throw action than through dry dialogue.
*through* action I meant to say.
No, actually he says “Lost has a lot of explaining to do in its final hours. But last night, the info was unloaded in a form that was less an origin story of Jacob and MIB than a dark-and-light fantasy fable.” How is that not about the mythology.
Casey is absolutely right. You people keep saying that Darlton expect the audience to be smart, blah blah, are wrong — anyone with half a brain could have figured out that we’d just learned who Adam and Eve were without the pointless Jack/Kate/Locke flashback.
Hugo Panzer, you are a fool. If you think this episode was “deep and meaningful,” you need to take a long look in the mirror.
Most of you are missing the point about the Jack/Kate/Locke scene. It was obvious when Jacob took the bodies to the cave that that was the Adam and Eve reveal, but the scene was shown so we could see Jack with the black and white stones, showing that everything was planned from the beginning and the story is headed somewhere very specific. I think “The End” will be fantastic!
Really, then if ou thought this was so great, tell me, what exactly is this “light” that “is in everyone” and “if it goes out” it “goes out everywhere”? That is plain and utter rubbish. We were dealing with electromagnetism and radiation and Dharma and Hanso and the Others, and at the last minute in the last season instead of explaining anything, they throw in a Temple that was nonsense, and then this nonsense of a “light”- so what is this light?- and it makes the first 5 seasons irrelevant.
So there is this Jacob who because of a whim of a game with his brother, decides to bring so many people to the island to prove that some people are good or to protect the light?? Then there is no evil one or god one, so that at least interesting supposition is also bust, because Jacob and MIB are both idiots. Why not just leave everyone alone and off the island and let Jacob and MIB have at it and leave everyone alone.
“Producers”…
I don’t think you get the “Man of Science, Man of Faith” thing. The show examines both ways of understanding the world.
Oh, and while we’re at it, isn’t it hypocritical of you to jump on the “Last-night’s-episode-of-lost-sucked-because-I’m-clueless-and-can’t-think-on-my-own” bandwagon? Particularly when you haven’t written about the show in months? Go to bed grandpa and give us back the guy who writes the reviews of Breaking bad and South Park.
hugo-panzer – Ken is on the money. It was one of the worst episodes of the entire run. The episode didn’t answer any questions, created more, added nothing to the story, was poorly written, badly directed and badly acted. This close to the end there shouldn’t be any crap filler episodes. They insulted my intelligence by airing this bad hour of TV. I expect more form the Lost group.
@Sean: Agree 100%.
Hugo-Panzer, I suggest before you go on calling reputable writers “bandwagon” jumpers, you get to know who you are insulting. Pulitzer prize finalists have earned the right to their substantial opinions and his accolades plus numerous appearances all over the t.v. world because of his enormous reputation as a world class writer definitely make him more of an opinion to adhere to than a guy who needs attack someone who doesn’t understand the term, “fresh perspective”. Ken is bang on and you do well to keep his reputation in mind before you bash him too bits.
It technically didn’t answer much. All it did was detour from the main story (which was getting good). So Jacob and his unnamed brother ended up on the island. But how did their “Mom” know so much? How did she get there? How did she make it so that they couldn’t hurt each other? How did she wipe out an entire village of people and cover up the frozen donkey wheel? Was she the smoke monster in disguise? Why did the smoke monster, (once free from the glowing cave) take the form of Jacob’s unnamed brother after being free on the island? Again, too many questions this late in the game. I usually don’t get caught up in solving all the mysteries of Lost. But last night just tested my patience. And to be honest, I really wasn’t that wrapped up in solving the mystery of who the skeletons in the cave were. I really couldn’t care less about them. I was expecting a GAME CHANGER this late in the season. Especially since the episode was about how Jacob came to be. But nope. A lot of time wasted. Disappointing.
Thank you Bruno! This is EXACTLY my problem with this episode! The answers were stupid, and then it just added a bunch of crap.
WORST
ACTING ON LOST
EVER!
Woah, Comic Book Dude!!! Its great to meet you! I’m a huge fan of the simpsons.
People are entitled to their opinions, but the second-guessing (“Why did this episode happen now?” is starting to get to me. The creators/producers/writers have a story to tell, and we need to let them tell it in their own way. If you don’t like where the bus is going or how the route is laid out, there are alternative means of transportation.
COMPLETELY DISAGREE. I thought last night’s episode was wonderful – answering questions, giving us a backstory for two of the Island’s most mysterious characters. Titus, Mark and Allison Janney KILLED it.
here here!!!
‘Hear’, hear, you twit.
Grammar Nazi is the new Troll.
Where, where?
All that grammar but no manners.
Completely agree with Jessie! This was one of my favorite episodes ever. Damon and Carlton have been saying all along that anybody watching the show for straight up answers are going to be disappointed. Sorry to all you folks that hated it, but you’re going to have to use your brain for this one and figure out that it’s not about the answers. WE’ll never be able to find all the answers to the questions we have but we can make ourselves the best people we can be along the way to the end. That’s the whole point of the show.
Well said! Especially those last two sentences.
100% agree meg. I’m so glad I’m not the only one! I thought the episode was great.
Side note, I read these post a lot, so with all of the speculation and theorizing, I was not surprised that they were brothers. However, my dear mother who does not read posts was totally shocked – and happy to learn the truth there. My point is that the more of us who read these posts and other’s theories are a little bit underwhelmed when plot points come together that have been ‘guessed’ already…I’m rambling like Doc. People should quit being so damn unimpressed with everything and enjoy the ride.
I figured that this fable ep would polarize fans and that those who favor action would hate it. I thought Janney and the boys were great and was mesmerized by the whole thing. It further reinforced the symmetry of this “mobius” series, though I too have lots of questions now about the origins of Janney’s character, though it’s maybe not as important as establishing where the brothers came from. I found the shoe-horning in of the scene of Kate, Jack and Locke a bit jarring until I realized it was from season 1.
@meg, Well said!
Great episode. What was not to like? Ken Tucker likes formula dramas and LOST has elements of this, thus he likes the show. But every once in a while Tucker’s brain starts to bleed when he doesn’t understand a complicated episode. Hetries to sound cool, but in the end he feels much more comforatable with a grey’s and CSI based show. LOST fans mostly loved this episode from what I see and the haters, the haters that watch every week, are the one’s with the most distain. Like children they are quick to say something sucks, but like children they are wrong 99% of the time. I can’t wait for the final 3.5hrs. I thought I was ready for the end…. I just realized… I’m not.
I’m just dissapointed because all along I’ve believed that it is the fate of the main characters to come to the island, and under the guidance of some all-knowing force, find redemption and do something really, truly important. Now it just seems as if all along they’ve just been pawns in a game between two brothers with a bratty feud…
Heres how this show can be saved: reveal near the end of the next episode that even Jacob and MIB have just been chess pieces in an even greater grand scheme. The mastermind: the island. And the will of the island will be manifested in a ressurected John Locke. That could save the show!!!!!
I couldn’t stand the horror if it turned out to be Montesquieu.
I loved it too.
Apparantly people either loved it or hated it. I loved it. Glad to know where/how Jacob and No Name got to be the way they were, we now know the importance of the Island, and we know who the “Adam and Eve” skeletons were. That all said, I’m glad to be getting back to the main cast for the last few hours – I just hope no one else dies. Think that’s possible? LOL
Not true — I am absolutely middle of the road in my feelings on this one.
The problem for me is this — in season 2 we were introduced to Charles Widmore and Ben Linus. The conflict between these two men was the heart of seasons 3 and 4. They are the first two to give us “the rules”, where Widmore said that Ben couldn’t kill him and which Ben says Widmore changed with Alex’s death. In season 5, Ben moving the island instead of Locke, then Widmore’s recruitment of Locke for the war we were told was coming were driving forces.
However, with the season 5 finale, it seems the writers have removed Ben and Widmore from the roles of game-palyers and game-changers and plunked Jacob and MIB in front of us and expected us to be cool with it. I know that Jacob and Smokey have been name-dropped and island enigmas from the outset, but were better served as just that — mysteries in the background around which the show was taking place. I don’t want to see how Jacob & MIB manipulated the events of the series, I want to see the human interaction and confrontation between the flawed and morally ambiguous (at best) characters that have had the biggest and most intimate impact on the first 5 seasons of the show as we head down the stretch.
Come on, Ben goes to shoot up Penny and clips Desmond instead. Ben takes out Widmore’s man in Locke. Ben hires Sayid to smoke Widmore’s associates off-island. Yet when UnLocke tells Ben to meet him over on Hydra Island — where Widmore is stationed — the story makes no allusion to the potential confrontation between the former leaders of the Others.
I’m a big mythology guy and will be with LOST until the end (and probably long after), but give us resolutions to the conflicts that have mattered the most and been the most intimate to our characters.
i completely agree, joey
Absolutley Joey. I too want to see some sort of resolution of the unfinished business between Widmore and Ben. I can’t believe Ben is just going to go out with a reformed wimper, but then they apparently dropped the ball on the Sun/Widmore thing too,
Well said, Joey. You put my mixed feelings into words perfectly.
Well said, Joey; I couldn’t agree more.
The Widmore/Ben conflict was built up so much and then out of nowhere kicked to the curb in favor of the Jacob/MIB conflict.
As viewers, we spent seasons investing into Widmore/Ben and thinking that the stakes revolved around them (or at least that they were important players), and now we find out that they are almost irrelevant and that the true stakes have essentially come out of left field? That’s more than a little misleading.
I still love this show dearly, but I wish that they could give us resolutions to things that were, for a while, central to the show’s storyline.
Well said Joey!!! I completely agree.
People who think Jacob and the MIB were first introduced at the end of season 5 haven’t been paying attention to the show. The smoke monster was in the very first episode and Jacob has been mentioned as the leader of the Others as far back as season 2.
Desmo — it isn’t that Jacob and MIB haven’t been around. They were island enigmas who better served the story when they were just that… mysteries. I’m a big LOST fan and still ove the show, but would the story they are telling today, with 3 1/2 hours of original programming left to go, be better served if the last 16 episodes or so hadn’t brought Jacob and MIB to the forefront? What kind of a mind trip would it be if the key players were still Ben and Widmore? If we still weren’t sure Jacob even existed and Smokey hadn’t recevied a face?
Regardless, the point is that it feels as though we were given a bit of a bait and switch. I’m sure that in a way Ben and Widmore are extensions of the Jacob/MIB conflict, but by ripping the former all but from the stage and plopping Jacob and MIB front and center — well, it feels as though they’re not being faithful to the story that they’ve been telling for the first 4 seasons and all but the last episode of season 5.
Believe me, I’m paying attention… that’s why seeing the key players sidelined for what appears to be a way to try and make the overall conflict in the story more mythological/bigger/meta by making it between 2 demigods (or whatever) and not between two of the most mysterious and intriguing characters on the show seems almost as though they didn’t think the stakes were high enough or something. Sure, we get a little Widmore over the walkie talkie on occassion, but when was the last time we saw Ben? Bring us back the characters we are invested in and tell their stories… that’s all we want!
Terribly acted, over written, and poorly executed. We’ve been building to this moment since the season 5 finally… can you really day it delivered? It seemed like an hour dedicated to explain who the adam and eve skeletons were. BLAH BLAH BLAH. We just have more questions.
over-written??????
“Over-written”
There were too many words, man!
Over-written is too kind. Terribly written more like it. Just an awful episode. Seemed very forced, like it was trying to hurridly justify the entire island enigma in some vague, unsatisfying way using a secondary story line that has played no real part in the series up until now. Almost as bad as “it was all a dream.”
My suspicion is now that the producers are just focused on the cash out. They will drag us along till the end, hopefully get blow out ratings for a bloated finale and then walk away with a big payoff and perhaps some tv bragging rights.
If that happens it will still hit them in the wallet via dvd sales. But people have short memories so they will get a shot at another series or two.
Agree 100%. I loved it. LOVED it. The interesting thing is.. all of my friends who are Lost watchers.. we discuss the previous episode Wednesday at work and at lunch.. There are some critical people in this group who hate some of the episodes I LOVE. But everyone thought last night was great. There were a couple flaws of course (more grown up Jacob and MiB please!) but everyone thought it was great and intelligent and just… vintage Lost in all the right ways.
Same here, we have a bunch of Lost watchers at work and everyone agreed that the episode was awesome.
All fifteen LOSTIES at my workplace HATED it with a passion.
Is it just me, or does everyone that says they love it has no supporting argument why? They just are on the brainless band wagon. They’re are so many question that could have been answered in this that weren’t. “Light inside all men” what light in all men? Just explain it in some manner.
This was a pointless hour that patched in a 6 year hole with the lowest contractor winning the bid. HIGHLY DISAPPOINTED!
A great and intelligent episode? I cant believe anyone thinks that! Really, it was so AWFUL I almost bailed midway. They better get their mojo back next week or the finale will be a huge dud.
Only kids and retards will like this episode.
wow. inappropriate.
Dave you make yourself seem so smart!!!
Dave – then you must’ve loved it!
Am I retard or a child?
Janney killed it? Her death was the worst acting the show’s ever had.
I agree. She was horrible. Flat, no emotion, and said the name, “Jacob” five million times.
I thought Janney did a good job. No one here has a flat, crazy, emotionless mother, I take it…
@kris10: exactly!
ppl who are truly crazy tend to be flat and emotionless, contrary to pop culture idioms insisting otherwise.
@kris10: Right there with you. So maybe the people who liked the show are the ones who could identify with the crazy mom/favorite kid issues?
The episode was bold, and the Lost team took a big risk with this; I think they should be given some latitude here. Though I agree with some of the other posters that the episode should have aired earlier in the season. It could have aired virtually anywhere and been a better fit.
First! yeah at times this episode disappointed..but I think only time will tell how this all plays out in the entire story. So I must reserve judgement till “The End”.
First what?
(…and I agree with Ken. Where’s Dan Faraday? We need to travel back in time so that this episode can be redone.)
Lost O….you’re an idiot. but seriously, congrats on being second.
Agreed. Big let down for me. Still keeping the faith, though.
I’ve come this far, what may seem like a mis-step now may be a “wow, I get it” in 3.5 hours from now…I’m willing to wait and see…
Haha, this sums up my feelings perfectly!
Yes.
agreed. i have no issues with the content of the episode, as you said how much it matters can be assessed later. my problem is its poor execution. those actors might as well have been talking directly to the camera at us, given all the plaintive dialog & reveals. kinda reminded me of the whispers reveal btwn hurley & michael.
Agree. This epsiode felt unnecessary, especially when they are trying to cram so much of the other stories into such a short time. And I could never get past Allison Janney and disappear into her character. Poor casting choice.
thank you, laura. i could not get that fact out of my head the entire episode!!! at first glance, i turned to the hubby and said, ‘that’s allison janney, isn’t it?’ and there it stuck.
That’s exactly what I did, except I went “That looks like Allison Janney.” and my mom goes “It is.” I just was really disappointed in this episode. It seemed ridiculous to put it in second to last before the season finale, the reason for this whole thing seemed ridiculous, it’s starting to remind me of the Supernatural season arc, with brothers (be it angels though) against each other, I was annoyed that she can just move babies across the room that were just born without cutting the cord and not having gray hair, this whole episode just did not gel with me, and it seemed just ridiculous. I know I’m probably upsetting people, but I feel the reason they couldn’t age and who they were just seemed like a letdown with this episode. I especially hated the fact that the people we’ve been watching from the beginning, weren’t even shown until the last few minutes of the episode. And we went through all this to find out who the skeletons were? I’m sorry to those I’m upsetting, but I was really letdown with this.
@ Laura, nykolus & AshleyBrooke : If you’ve come out of this episode feeling like it was a waste, then I’m sorry to say that it went over your head. There were plenty of answers, just rewatch it.
hugo panzer, just because someone didn’t like the episode doesn’t mean it went over their heads. Quit being a pretentious prick.
what answers hugo? why don’t you start a column and answer people’s questions then? you seem to know more than anyone else.
typecasting is a b**tch, ain’t it?
actually i hardly ever watched west wing, and she’s played crazy before in many movies. i remember her best in american beauty and big night, but she’s been in many movies.
I thought they should have gone with a less well-known actress for this part. I, too, kept thinking “C.J.” all through the episode.
@Hugo-panzer – if we’re all so stupid that this less-than-stellar Lost episode “went over our heads,” then PLEASE, won’t you explain it to us?? I’ve only been watching the show for 6 years, but you’re right – I, like, totally didn’t get this episode!
well said Mel
To be fair to Janney, she didn’t exactly have much to work with, character-wise.
It didn’t go over my head. The answers themselves seemed ridiculous. I didnt like this episode because it seemed ridiculous to put it second to last, it seems stupid to me that they’re brothers having a tiff practically, which no offense, is reminding me of Supernatural, the skeletons being the M.I.B. and their “mother” seemed ridiculous to me, I’d rather the skeletons have been someone else, the light special effects did look hokey, protecting light that’s in everyone seems stupid, the acting wasn’t very good, need I continue? I didn’t like it, and I’m and everyone else who didn’t like it are allowed to do so, and it doesn’t make us stupid or that it went over our heads.
But I agree with everyone else, why don’t YOU give us the answers then? Explain how absolutely awesome this episode was suppose to be to all of us, since you seem to have grasped it so well.
Agreed–didn’t like the episode and could barely stay awake through it. It just seemed cheesy.
I think the Smothers Brothers did a better job with the whole whiny “mom liked you best” plot line.
I disagree. I’ve already heard plenty of complaints about the ep, but I loved it.
blehhhh. this was one of the worst. could that light have been any cheesier?
It’s not a light, pooh, it’s supposed to be exotic energy of some kind. To people in the first century AD, they would call it a light.
I don’t care what the light represents in any century, it’s cheesy.
smoke monsters, polar bears, etc are not cheesy, but a “light” is? c’mon…
yeah..the light was cheesy. but let’s be real…who are we to judge when our favorite show is currently centered around a smoke monster? i think we have to go with it and trust in darlton.
LOL! Agreed!
as sawyer said, “cuz that would be ridiculous”!
I gotta say, I totally agree with you, Ken. Maybe my expectations were just too high…but I felt totally let down. This late in the game, LOST should be firing on all cylinders and last night felt like the air being slowly and painfully let out of a balloon. It WAS too talky…and yet not nearly enough decent information was revealed at all. For me.
I agree–this episode would have been great if it took place maybe last season. But for it to be one of the final episodes was really a letdown. I want as much of the characters that we’ve come to love as possible over these last few episodes!
If this episode had come in an earlier season, I would have stopped watching the show. Really cheesy, leaden and ham-fisted. It played like the original “Clash of the Titans” movie to me. (ANd I’m a die-hard Lost fan, I’ve watched and rewatched every episode since the pilot, so please don’t tell me I must not be a “real” fan.)
So a real fan would overlook 4.5 strong seasons just because of one bad episode? Who needs enemies with fans like you?
Totally Agree! They’ve spent way too much screen time with Jacob and MIB this season. I think they over-estimate the fans need to know about these guys. Give me Jack and Deadlocke!
I’m not overlooking 4.5 strong seasons. I’m just saying this episode sucked.
4.5 strong seasons? aren’t we on season 6? which season are you excluding from your count, then?
Agree!! Man, that was boring. What a waste of the precious hours Lost has left.
Agreed. Last night’s episode was sadly – much ado about NOTHING. Very disappointed.
I’m glad I’m not the only person disappointed with that last night. I feel like they are trying too hard to answer stuff without giving it a good explanation. THEY decided to end the show this year, meaning THEY should have been ready to properly execute one of the most anticipated TV finales ever. Not half ass it by giving bullcrap answers…psst hey guys the whispers are dead people…hey those bodies are actually hundreds of years old…and Jacob is guarding a light. Screw that! If they needed another season to do it right why didn’t they?? Also this episode was horribly placed…it should have been more towards the beginning of the season. I am too excited about what’s going on ON the island to worry about half-done myth tales.
I think it was perfectly placed in the season. This was the “eye of the storm” hour that breaks up the last two action-packed episodes from the final two. These guys are pro, and have the hero cycle eb and flow down to an artform.
Is this episode going to stop me from watching the rest? Nope.
This.